Thoughts on Part 4?

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It’s been a few years since Part 4 released, so I’m curious what people think about it! Personally, I’m not the biggest fan. I greatly enjoyed the art direction, music, and location, but wasn’t so big on the story. The serialized story was a little too weird for my tastes, and I wasn’t into the crazy stuff with Da Vinci. Not a big fan of Rebecca either, I felt like she was a bit boring. The one-off episodes were also a bit of a letdown, with most of them being pretty bland in my opinion.
Part 4 was my introduction to Lupin so I think it’s a good entry point for new fans, but after having seen a lot more Lupin media, it’s not very high on my list now
 

Tsushi

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I watched Part 4 right after Cagliostro as an introduction to the series. I do really like the art direction as well! I think it has some weak aspects, to me I think it makes Lupin a bit TOO cool/invincible. I like him to fumble and have to improvise more than be "always a step ahead" type.

However I liked it a lot overall. I liked Rebecca, I liked Nyx too! I really liked how crazy and out there the DaVinci clone was. I would very much prefer something wild and silly like that to stuff that's dull and grounded. I felt that some of what they did with Jigen and Goemon wasn't very good, such as having Jigen say they didn't have much to talk about other than work??? Which is a terrible way to characterize their close friendship imo. Goemon felt like he was always unhappy to be around them too.

I definitely think it tried for a balance of episodic and longer story and I think it was a decent way to do it! I don't think it's perfect but I really think a lot of Lupin media has ups and downs. Pros and cons. I try to enjoy the good aspects of all the bits I can :kar_jigen:
 
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So I agree with what you and Tsushi have both said

By this point I had only watched a couple of films and tv specials. Part 4 despite some of the issues I think are defo apparent you mentioned, this was when I fell in love with Lupin as a character.
I can't believe It came from the haunted house episode of all things though, I still saw him as a thief by this point (with maybe a touch of heroism) but the fact he didn't take any of the treasure at the end to respect the little kid hit me hard for some weird reason.

Honestly, other than that episode, I haven't really rewatched the rest of the series. I think my main issue at the time was how kind of meh some of the one-off episodes were.
I will say this though...

Don't watch the OVA and Italian game right afterwards.
 

JeyPawlik

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Very similar as well, I've watched I think 90% of the entire series at this point and I've just found Parts 4, 5, and 6 not my jam at all. Part 4 had some really neat parts and the art direction wasn't too boring (looking at you P6) but it did feel like a slog about halfway through for me. So glad I watched Part 3 first!
 
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I love Part 4! The colours, the animation, the character designs, Italy as a cultural backdrop, all of it is tailor-made for me. There are some great episodes in it, like the haunted hotel episode, or the Japan episode. Even the worst episode (for me, the love wine one) has some fun and memorable moments and is leagues ahead the worsts episodes in Part 5 or Part 6. There's some decent slapstick and situational comedy going on in Part 4, but it's also not afraid to tackle darker topics. And one of its greatest strengths is that the one-off episodes take place in the same continuity as the main plot, so you get little things like Rebecca showing up on TV even if she's not actually a character in the episode. That helps make the side characters and setting feel more alive.

It's not perfect by any means, and I agree with some of the criticism that the characters don't always feel like they're having fun together, but I honestly had a bigger problem with that in Part 5. The main plot isn't very good or interesting, but I like that it doesn't take up too much space and isn't even the most memorable chunk of the series.
 
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Tsushi

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It's not perfect by any means, and I agree with some of the criticism that the characters don't always feel like they're having fun together, but I honestly had a bigger problem with that in Part 5.
I felt like at least their dysfunctional vibes in Part 5 felt like an intentional part of the story they were telling, like, in the "flashback" episodes in Part 5 they had more synergy, to contrast with the current situation where they're dealing with the aftermath of the failed marriage lol

I still have lots of criticism for Part 5, but I would say the relationship dynamics between the gang is one of the most interesting parts of it to me and they deliberately tried to make it about how the fallout of their disconnection as friends was resolved in the end. Whereas Part 4 it felt like they didn't really think about it and it just happened to be written that way.
 
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I felt like at least their dysfunctional vibes in Part 5 felt like an intentional part of the story
That's actually more or less why I don't vibe with Part 5 as a whole even though I adore some elements in it. I'm just fundamentally not interested in the story they wanted to tell with the characters, or how they chose to tell it by leaving it as this mysterious thing that happened in the past and that only got properly revealed in the last episode. I don't think I'll ever stop feeling bitter about Fujiko's role in Part 5. If the writers want to explore the gang dynamics falling apart, my go to example is the Mystery of Mamo where everything happens on screen and you get to see everyone's raw reactions to it.
 
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So I agree with what you and Tsushi have both said

By this point I had only watched a couple of films and tv specials. Part 4 despite some of the issues I think are defo apparent you mentioned, this was when I fell in love with Lupin as a character.
I can't believe It came from the haunted house episode of all things though, I still saw him as a thief by this point (with maybe a touch of heroism) but the fact he didn't take any of the treasure at the end to respect the little kid hit me hard for some weird reason.

Honestly, other than that episode, I haven't really rewatched the rest of the series. I think my main issue at the time was how kind of meh some of the one-off episodes were.
I will say this though...

Don't watch the OVA and Italian game right afterwards.
Italian Game was literally sooo painful! Really disappointing that they had the opportunity to do something really cool, and then just recycled old footage. The OP was so awesome too! Bit of a shame
 

Tsushi

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That's actually more or less why I don't vibe with Part 5 as a whole even though I adore some elements in it. I'm just fundamentally not interested in the story they wanted to tell with the characters, or how they chose to tell it by leaving it as this mysterious thing that happened in the past and that only got properly revealed in the last episode. I don't think I'll ever stop feeling bitter about Fujiko's role in Part 5. If the writers want to explore the gang dynamics falling apart, my go to example is the Mystery of Mamo where everything happens on screen and you get to see everyone's raw reactions to it.
I can totally understand and respect that. I felt like a lot of it was so subtle and I would have liked to see more of the actual confrontations. We only got to see that with Goemon and Lupin.

I think Fujiko at least had SOME moments talking about it but... The whole reason I started writing Adieu was basically because I felt like I wanted to make those subtle moments have more precedent and explanation that I only really landed on after reading a lot into it. I think the gang is better more dramatic and expressive so I can agree, I do prefer the Mamo's bigger blow ups :loop_laugh:
 

jojosuibhne

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i'm a big fan of part 4 personally! i agree it's not the best lupin there is but i think it's got some really unique ideas, great art and music, and some of the best action (and cars) of modern lupin. i still watch the entire opening even on rewatch because it's soooooo epic. i also LOVE the jigen and goemon solo episodes, "with a gun in my hand" and "requiem for the assassins." the action was really cool and the one off characters felt like they had a lot of heart. the best jigen moment in his part 4 episode to me rivals his moment at the beginning of lupin iii the first where he takes down a road sign by shooting out the bolts. it's just sooooo good.
tbh i'm also not super into the serialized plot of modern lupin. i think it kind of takes itself too seriously at times? but i would rather watch the surreal da vinci fever dream than parts 5 or 6, which were really not my jam. i also adore nyx and ADORE rebecca, so while the series definitely has flaws it is still very rewatchable for me!
 

lupingavemebrainrot

Hurr de Durr I have lupin brain rot
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I am mixxed i liked the story line but, didn't understand why they cloned davinci and made him jacked. fujiko's design became more generic, and rebecca was annoying, like half the time I was wondering why she was even in the plot line to begin with. it also didn't make sense that an heiress would 1 up lupin, I grew european rich, not rich rich, but wealthy enough to go some schools with the 1 percent, when the heirs and heiresses rebelled it was normally small time petty stuff, like how an american suburban white kid would start larping as a gang member from detroit. her parents must be liberal, and not old fashioned. because I am pretty sure if I brought home an older man let alone a thief to marry, my butt would be like leather once the healing was done. also she was technically what 16? she'd be in a private school not married. atleast the creators cock blocked him. I really liked the mind fuck episode with zenigata protecting a widow who was previously abused by her husband for infidelity, it really shows that zenigata does stuff not because of personal gain, but because its the right thing to do. Despite his incompentance with catching lupin, he literally is a good person.. fujiko really was an asshole in this one series. like that poor kid imagine seeing someone get killed, get blamed for it, have a target on your back because you were inheitor of a magicians talent, fall in love, almost get retraumatized, then human trafficked into another show, fujiko major asshole. the assholery didn't stop there she pratically ruined their only day off.
 

Tsushi

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Rebecca felt to me like she was at youngest 19? But more like early 20s? Like 22ish is what it felt like to me. She clearly isn't under the thumb of her parents at all, and I got the feeling her parents weren't alive even. With the butler and gadgets I got a female Batman vibe from her, just not fighting crime lol

I have no idea where you're getting 16 from? I know you can drink younger in Europe but she had wine as a pretty prominent part of her story. She seemed younger in the flashback with her previous boyfriend who made the dream world thing. Where are you getting that from?

And as for her getting one over on Lupin a few times, it wasn't because Lupin couldn't compete, it was because most of the time he was underestimating her. She was using his assumption of her being naive and stupid to her advantage. He just showed up and planned for Zenigata and guards but didn't plan for her to try to steal the crown herself. I think it's also important to remember that Lupin says many times in the series that his "weakness is pretty women" and so of course they have a much easier time messing with him. He gets distracted and goes easier on them, even when he does consider them a threat.

And yeah as for enjoying DaVinci clone, I really don't want it to make a lot of "sense" so much as for it to swing for the fences and be weird and memorable! And I think it achieved that.
 

lupingavemebrainrot

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Rebecca felt to me like she was at youngest 19? But more like early 20s? Like 22ish is what it felt like to me. She clearly isn't under the thumb of her parents at all, and I got the feeling her parents weren't alive even. With the butler and gadgets I got a female Batman vibe from her, just not fighting crime lol

I have no idea where you're getting 16 from? I know you can drink younger in Europe but she had wine as a pretty prominent part of her story. She seemed younger in the flashback with her previous boyfriend who made the dream world thing. Where are you getting that from?

And as for her getting one over on Lupin a few times, it wasn't because Lupin couldn't compete, it was because most of the time he was underestimating her. She was using his assumption of her being naive and stupid to her advantage. He just showed up and planned for Zenigata and guards but didn't plan for her to try to steal the crown herself. I think it's also important to remember that Lupin says many times in the series that his "weakness is pretty women" and so of course they have a much easier time messing with him. He gets distracted and goes easier on them, even when he does consider them a threat.

And yeah as for enjoying DaVinci clone, I really don't want it to make a lot of "sense" so much as for it to swing for the fences and be weird and memorable! And I think it achieved that.
Italy has no min drinking age, its actually not uncommon for kids to be a given a little bit of wine at dinner. last time I been to italy I was 14 and was able to buy a bottle of wine from the store. as for why I think she's younger? welll.......she just acts that way. like maybe not in a snotty bratty way, but I'd imagine if you were young and had plenty of money to burn and only a butler to hold you accountable you'd probably go the adventure route too. I don't mind really, the only issues I have outside the first episode, the kidnapping and the finale, they just didn't do much with her.

tbh I was pretty stoned while watching this so I all can remember is they cloned davinci and made him jacked and some how in his infinite wisdom he made a mind fuck machine to bring about the new renaissance....? dream of italy? davinci was floretine though, and back then the italian states weren't unified, it wasn't until about the 1800s that italy became a country, so a ressurected or cloned davinci would probably not recognize italy as a country, but refer to his home italian state. Theres also the compounding factor that certain parts also kind of hated each other depending on what noble pissed off the other noble, and who was pope at the time. Like shit I think the only part they got right is davinci was killing people that failed his test, the conditions that created renaissance basically were the result of the black death, like alot of our western values that we have now was attributed to the renaissance, less people more demand for services caused culture to focus on more individualistic pursuits like high art and culture. Just wished the creators focused more on the historical aspects of davinci, he was a great thinker after all. so davinci culling the population through his scheme would've replicated the population issues that cause europe to go in the renaissance in the first place.

personally I think part 4 strengths is more about the side stories, like jigen's, or Zenigata's, even fujiko's but thats simply on the grounds they got her assholery down so pat I actually felt for the guy. Its good fodder to watch while high. Personally though out of all the newer ones I am more of a part 6 fan, mainly cause of the second arc, loved the lupin mind fuck arc. need me more lupin mind fucks.
 
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