Spoilers Koike Movies 2025 Thread

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Jigen's Magnum

Jigen's Magnum

dabedee
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Seroster said:
I must have completely missed or forgotten the bit about immortality that would apply to others, so I'm... confused :) But as I said, I have no clue how Lupin was supposed to have survived whatever that was.

I will say ONE very important thing. Jigen spent far too long in this movie WITHOUT A HAT!
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I thought if they want to put every piece of media of Lupin together (thanks to Part V), the gang HAS to be immortal because there's no other explanation on how they managed to live through the 70s, then suddenly attempt to adapt to newer technology and how it would affect them (once again because of Part V). Lupin didn't want to be immortal has he already stated in this movie and Mystery of Mamo, so I just figured maybe Mamo somehow made the gang immortal. Somehow. As Mamo thought it would be a curse to Lupin and the gang. Because of Part V, Green vs Red and the Immortal Bloodline ready pushed this whole immortality thing together and obviously, it wouldn't really add up to other films, apart from the fact that it could be a completely different Lupin because of clones and the immortality system that the Immortal Bloodline had and the number of Lupins that rampaged in Green vs Red. But it's Lupin, you can just put anything in the franchise and somehow make it work. But in this case, it kind of fills some plot holes of the franchise.

It's either that or the writers were just typing random shit on the script without having any intention of my theory at all 😭.
 
Tsushi

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Yael was a surprise fave for me in it too! I would NOT have guessed that lol makes me kinda regret not grabbing a dojinshi with him!

You can take or leave my thoughts about the clone theory thing here: I think the "trying to make it all canon" they're immortal thing is a fun thing to play with for a fanfic but I certainly don't think that it's the intention. It's just a series that has had a lot of different authors over decades and is bound to not line up.

I think the series isn't intended to be one "timeline" and never was meant to be. Though lately the Parts were more "chronological" I don't think it suits the series to shackle it to trying to make it all completely cohesive. I mean Zantetsuken alone has something like 5 or 6 origin stories by now lol

In the original Mystery of Mamo, the main driving force that makes Lupin so intent on going after Mamo, is the existence of the clone. He hates the idea that he might BE the clone and not himself. And right before the end Mamo does relieve him of that fear and tells him he was the real one.

Green vs Red is a more meta story about the identity crisis of the franchise. As the original authors, directors, voice actors etc die, the new writers need to figure out how to carry on this character. The series is deeply over shadowed by Cagliostro in the minds of the public (the reason that Fire Treasure has a remake in it) and we see Yasuo watching the movie too, and being inspired by it.

All the Lupins are representations, different people's clashing views of what Lupin is or what fans see him as. These are people who, like most of us here, have been influenced by Lupin and take his inspiration on in ourselves. Lupins representing different ways the character can be seen and told by a new person in charge.

And one of them needs to win out as what Lupin WILL become if the series continues, and we need to recognize him as Lupin for it to work. Because the series original creators WILL retire and pass on, you can't rely on them to define Lupin forever. It's clumsy but I believe very much that that's what it's trying to achieve. I could go deeper on that movie but that's the short version lol

As a theory for fun I respect the vision though, don't let my analysis ruin your sandbox!
 
Tsushi

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dabadee said:
It's either that or the writers were just typing random shit on the script
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I was typing my reply before I saw this and while I don't think they are just typing random shit haha I do think it's more along the lines of wanting to try to start the next movie or Part with a clean(ish) slate to be able to make as good of an idea as they can. For example, I think Lupin Zero was better off because they wanted to make it a period piece, and they didn't ask themselves "how would it make sense for them to be young in the 60s but still be characters that are in modern times in Part 6?" It's just a question of what wilk make for a better story, and having 1000 hours of content you have to be chained to makes it harder to tell a fun and interesting story.

They keep them all generally tied to certain things, like Jigen being a gunman and having a certain attitude etc. but they don't try to cram everything he's ever said and done in all these 60+ years into every interation to make it all fit perfectly. (Like how he needs his hats to aim good in that Part 2 episode lol) And I think it turns out better that way.
 
Seroster

Seroster

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There's something with Agatha Christie's detective character Hercule Poirot where some people calculate he had to be about 120 when he finally died. :p

I do not subscribe to the view that all of the stories are part of a continuous canon, myself. For one thing, the betrayal of Lupin by Fujiko to get the loot would surely have gotten tiresome after like 40 betrayals, let alone however many times she does it. For all that Cagliostro is "late", there is never any sign of the characters aging; we know that Lupin is not a young man either, further restricting the number of years in which the adventures would all have to take place...

I mean, they're all stories and happened, but we're not looking at realistic time passing etc.
 
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Tsushi

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I can definitely say all characters that keep being written ARE immortal, in the meta sense. We as humans are what keeps ideas alive, they can only die if we forget them. Which is what I think Lupin is describing in that scene in Part 5 where Jigen asks him about retirement after he rescues him form custody with a huge arsenal. Lupin says he wants to keep trying to create these exciting stories until the audience isn't interested anymore. Until they turn it off, he wants to be Lupin the Third.
 
Jigen's Magnum

Jigen's Magnum

dabedee
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Tsushi said:
I can definitely say all characters that keep being written ARE immortal, in the meta sense.
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Yeah, this is probably the best way to describe this whole "immortal" thing.

I still like my personal headcanon, even though it has plot inconsistencies, like how Lupin and Jigen meet either between Zero, First Contact or TWCFM. So I can only choose one of them, while the others... never happened, I guess lol.
 
The Gentleman Thief

The Gentleman Thief

Seroster said:
I must have completely missed or forgotten the bit about immortality that would apply to others, so I'm... confused :) But as I said, I have no clue how Lupin was supposed to have survived whatever that was.

I will say ONE very important thing. Jigen spent far too long in this movie WITHOUT A HAT!
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As someone who hasn't yet seen the film it somewhat feels like Koike is going out of his way to make the characters real different from their usual take. He clearly holds respect for the franchise and its prior works but it looks to me like he's trying a bit too hard to leave HIS mark on the characters the way Miyazaki did.
 
Tsushi

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The Gentleman Thief said:
As someone who hasn't yet seen the film it somewhat feels like Koike is going out of his way to make the characters real different from their usual take. He clearly holds respect for the franchise and its prior works but it looks to me like he's trying a bit too hard to leave HIS mark on the characters the way Miyazaki did.
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Tbh I think the very distinctive style he lends to the characters isn't vanity, so much as a thoughtful way of differentiating them in tone. Even a person without a lot of knowledge of art can tell this looks different from the softer Lupins out there.

I actually talked to someone in the theater who said the last Lupin movie they watched was The First. And if you're just going to Lupin movies that are in US theaters, then that's the two things you've seen. I think going in without an expectation of Koike's Lupin to be much different makes for a worse audience experience. To my thinking, the cast looking different is a smart way to distinguish them form each other.
 
Tsushi

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IMO all the points made seem pretty valid, the movie is especially weak if considered as a standalone piece. Without attachment to the previous films setup the emotional impact of Yael isn't going to hit, the characters aren't well developed if you don't already have a deep tie to them from being a longtime Lupin fan, and especially placing it next to Mamo, which I think is some of the finest the series has to offer, this is not even gonna come close.

I try to find what I do like in it though, because it is what it is, and there will hopefully always be more in the future. I really rarely get high expectations for these things lol it makes when they do hit something great a lot more fun.
 
Tsushi

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Kat said:
We have a date for this release and it's the 21st of February!!! ...I hope the lack of mention of dub screenings at the end of the post is a mistake because I'd love to see the dub on the big screen :loop_sad:
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I hope you can see it just for variety sake, but if not, maybe I can lessen the sting for you and say imo the American cast English script was worse, compared to the subtitles. A lot of choices made on how to translate certain things I think made the film weaker.

This isn't specifically about the actors performances, I don't really like this cast in the other Koike movies so I have trouble judging, but the literal script itself I think hurt the film. I dunno if UK will have their own dub or not or if there would be added licensing to navigate using the American dub.

Disclaimer that I only got to watch it once for each (1 sub 1 dub) so maybe my thoughts will change over time, but at the moment that's my feelings.
 
Kat

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Tsushi said:
I hope you can see it just for variety sake, but if not, maybe I can lessen the sting for you and say imo the American cast English script was worse, compared to the subtitles. A lot of choices made on how to translate certain things I think made the film weaker.

This isn't specifically about the actors performances, I don't really like this cast in the other Koike movies so I have trouble judging, but the literal script itself I think hurt the film. I dunno if UK will have their own dub or not or if there would be added licensing to navigate using the American dub.

Disclaimer that I only got to watch it once for each (1 sub 1 dub) so maybe my thoughts will change over time, but at the moment that's my feelings.
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Thanks for the added perspective - I did see some lukewarm reactions to the dub script specifically on Bluesky, with people saying the VAs did good work with what they were given but it still felt like a rushjob 😔 I do indeed still want to see the dub for the sake of completionism, but I'm glad I won't be missing too much if I have to wait for the US digital release. I suspect Anime Limited couldn't get the rights to distribute the dub from GKIDS (though I would've thought they could, since both companies are owned by Toho) - sadly it's very rare for the UK to make their own anime dubs these days, but I wouldn't object to AL bringing back that trend. Hell, that would add another parallel between TIBL and Mamo :loop_laugh:

TBH more than anything I'm impatient for that digital release... it's not fair that I could rewatch the movie on the big screen if I wanted but Sof (and everyone else outside of Japan, the US, Canada and Europe) can't even see it once 🥺 I wanna watch it with him so bad... but late March will come eventually 🙏
 
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