Immortal Fanservice??

How much Fanservice is too much?

  • A birthday surprise is always welcome (remember Bloodseal?)

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  • eh.. as long as it serves the plot (purpose)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • god forbid I'll hunt down TMS (give me new things!)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Comment (other)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    5
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As Immortal Bloodline and it's ONA prequal are making their way sneakily along our timeline

I've returned with a poll about the ever lasting question in online fan culture since the beginning, when is fan service too much and how does it affect Lupin?
Too be clear I'm not talking about characters such as Fujiok, Selina Kyle or even Pyra from Xenoblade 2 (I've been playing that, good shit btw)

I'm talking about.. and yes I promise the topic is important to Immortal Bloodline (because little goblin guy) but more on the lines of recent (example) 14th doctor being played David Tannate again
This has happened in Lupin an unsurprising amount of times, after all 50+ years does do that to a franchise. When is too much just too much though?

that is the question!

perhaps something like Immortal Bloodline works due to the villain in question being not in any material or the complete opposite of the spectrum Lupin is still burning (part 5 ova)
it seems Lupin has many many birthdays nowadays and feels like having an old recurring villain or jacket color is happening more frequently than anything new?
 

Kat

fujigoe shipper first human being second
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I may be biased since Mamo is my favourite Lupin movie (that I've seen so far), but in regards to The Immortal Bloodlines specifically, I say bring on the clone army: I see a lot of fans complain that the franchise can't stop borrowing from Cagliostro, so it's only fair that Mamo gets its turn in the limelight! Speaking in general, tbh I'm not sure I'm an experienced enough Lupin watcher to know what counts as effective vs. gratuitous fanservice - I only started watching last year, and the most recent pieces of Lupin media I've seen are the Conan crossover movie (for the "mainline" stuff) and Bloodspray (for the Koikeverse, which I consider kind of its own thing). The former had a perfect example of what I consider fanservice done well: the introduction to Lupin's gang at the beginning reanimated several shots from the pilot film. I can imagine someone who hadn't seen the pilot saying "oh cool, Goemon outrunning the ocean", but as someone who had seen it I said "AW SICK, GOEMON OUTRUNNING THE OCEAN LIKE IN THE PILOT!" Maybe parts 4-6 and the more recent movies/OVAs have badly-done fanservice, I'll find out eventually. In my opinion, the best kind of reference/fanservice is the kind where it doesn't ruin the experience if you don't get it, but which is really rewarding if you do - I hope Immortal Bloodlines has a ton of that!!!
 
If The Immortal Bloodline does turn out to be a re-imagining of The Mystery of Mamo with The Two Lupins being the prequel, then that's great. There's enough changes for it not to be a "clone" and looking forward to it. Besides Mamo is one of the few antagonists that people really like to see and may be one of the last times seeing him.

Weirdly it does have a bit of fan service along with the rest of the series but not in an expected way as Koike referenced the manga character designs into his style and what Yuzo Aoki tried to do for Part 3 even if it didn't turn out that way...

As for fan service in general... It's really depends on the execution. Return of Pycal and Elusiveness of the Fog were both fan service bringing back a popular villain (Pycal and Kyosuke Mamo, the latter taking his manga form) but those are considered some of the weaker entries. Pycal was confusing and his character was changed. Personally I do feel like Kyosuke Mamo was one of the stronger points of the TV Special especially between himself and Lupin (and Lupin XXXIII), it's just the rest of the TV Special that lets it down. Just have a feeling that The Immortal Bloodline won't be like this and I'll imagine that the writers/staff know the complaints and the pressure to get Mamo "right" since The Mystery of Mamo is beloved.

References now and again are good. Some are neat like the Lupin vs Conan opening or spotting cameos in the background like Part 4. The opening of Missed by a Dollar was unexpected but the same time a delight. Even the likes of bring back Mister X or Fantoma for Part 2 were twists that were unexpected at the time.

I felt that Part 5 in some cases even though I liked the references really overdid the fan service and didn't have the anniversary reason to justify (like Is Lupin Still Burning?, a good example of fan service even if they just had to do THAT scene bringing it down a peg or Green vs Red where it was a case between not enough to justify the story and just right in a few scenes like Yasuo watching Castle of Cagliostro or listening to Fire Treasure, the story was the main issue with the OVA). It didn't get towards the point where it affected the plot too much outside of why did Lupin go back to Cagliostro when he could have gone elsewhere and affected some episodes more than others including important storyline episodes but was more than just a few shout outs here and there that you would expect. Even had a thought that the series might not be accessible enough for a first timer into the series just because of the references and people that appeared in it (and outside of the fanbase to have the unfair perception of having to watch the previous Parts like seasons, also gives Part 3 the stereotypical perception too). Then again there were cases that worked out okay like the assassins in the Happy Deathday Game, both a treat if you read the manga yet also tied in the plot and better than the alternative of characters that may not have had the personality that Monkey Punch gave them, they could have been generic gangsters. On the other hand the fan service also potentially caused a chance for them to not reappear again in the series especially ones that had more to do in the manga.

There's also the case where fan service is so focused that you really had to be a fan to "get it". Like The Killers in the Diner of Part 6. I'll imagine that the crossover between Lupin III fans and Ernest Hemingway fans is very low (unlike say Detective Conan/Cat's Eye due to same animation company or City Hunter due to staff crossover) and doesn't help the dialogue is connected to the stories. I don't know if anyone who watched the episode suddenly got an interest into reading a Hemingway story. What was Mamoru Oshii thinking? (and yes, he did adapt The Killers before)
it seems Lupin has many many birthdays nowadays and feels like having an old recurring villain or jacket color is happening more frequently than anything new?
It's sadly a sign of a series of a declining interest in Japan and age plus TMS (and Sega) celebrate birthdays too. It's a way of getting interest and Lupin is getting harder to market to a younger audience especially as it doesn't fit into the modern anime mold and the closest thing is the Neighborhood Princess manga spinoff. I'm not sure if Lupin Zero did well, not well enough for an English dub and apparently why it took so long for The Two Lupins to get shown... The way things are heading, I wouldn't be surprised if remakes/reboots/re-adaptations are considered like many anime series out there e.g. Lum, One Piece (despite the main series is STILL ongoing), Ranma 1/2, the "banned" episode of Gundam into a movie and the recent Anne Shirley. The only ones that I can think of that are commercial enough for a remake outside of Mamo are Part 1 and Cagliostro as Part 2 is too long, even then they are beloved and Miyazaki probably wouldn't want anyone to do a remake of Cagliostro while he is still alive.

Saying that there are still signs of a fresh look like The First and Lupin Zero even if they also both have elements of nostalgia too...
 

Tsushi

Matcha-Coated Tanuki Mod
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It's difficult to say how much nostalgia to go for. Personally I loved the irreverent take on it via TWCFM, and I think it revived the series by being so unique and less sentimental about the source material. And I think that energy honestly is still what carries these Koike movies being made and having hype despite them being significantly less well written.

I have seen a lot of buzz for this new Koike movie, and maybe it will attract some new audience just in terms of people who enjoy adult animation. I have no idea if Zero did well but to me that and the Jigen live action was the strongest things they've done in several years. But the older I get the more time is not so scary to me. Time will pass and more Lupin will happen. I do hope Lupin will get SOMETHING new once every 1-2 years and I think that's not unlikely. You can never know for sure.

I just keep making sure to buy the physical releases when I can and make Lupin a fun space to play in creatively. That's what this forum was for me. To keep people excited for more and that excitement will make a space for new fans. And new fans means continuing demand for new Lupin. So. What you can do is indoctrinate your friends into being Lupin fans :kar_fuji:
 
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